Irish Mountain
Running Association


Forum Messages

Antonio Di MannoJun 1 2013, 1:43pmDear Athletes: Antonio Di manno are from Italy, I'm going to run a Trail:
Sun Jun 16 11:00 AM Avonbeg LC Circuit of IMRA Race 26km and 1345m seeking a passage from Dublin (Temple Bar) to the track and back to Dublin if anyone can help me, thank you in advance (google traductore)
Brian O MurchuJun 14 2013, 1:22pmI am no longer available for this race, hopefully another RD can be found
Richard NunanJun 25 2013, 9:14pmHi Folks,

We are still looking for a RD for Ballinastoe !! Anyone need to make up there Non-Running Volunteer quota to qualify for their end of league prize.

Thanks in advance !!
Anne HodgeJul 2 2013, 10:47amHello
I can volunteer as a helper for the Ballinastoe run next week. I'm a first timer so need to know what time to be there. And a simple job that I can't mess up would be good!
John CondonJul 4 2013, 2:01pmThanks for volunteering to mark the route Peter. I'll be looking for looking for a volunteer to demark the course if anyone wants to step forward.

Lisa McGonigleJul 4 2013, 8:36pmAs per comments on another thread, just to say I'm new to the IMRA scene but would be really keen to give this race a go. Work in the City Centre and need to get back to Skerries though in case anyone is coming/going that way. Can provide baked goods in return!
Juju JayJul 6 2013, 10:11pmhi there, am helpin john out at the race & also racing it... but is anyone driving near laragh that i can jump in for carpool???.... peace & good juju
brian mcguckinJul 7 2013, 10:27amI can help colin with the first aid if you want.
Greg ByrneJul 7 2013, 9:54pmHi John, I can de-mark the course on Wednesday. Greg
John CondonJul 7 2013, 10:27pmThanks Greg. Appreciate that.

John CondonJul 8 2013, 11:01amThanks Brian, I'll put you down for First Aid as well.


Jesko ZimmermannJul 8 2013, 11:45amHi Folks,
Any chance for an early lift to the race from city center for a volunteer? Also, I can't stay for the price giving, if anybody is heading back into town after the race please let me know.

John CondonJul 8 2013, 1:06pmAll monies collected will be donated to a charity (Irish Kidney Assoc) as per the landowners choice.

To encourage and reward car pooling we will charge as follows- charge per car :-)
Cars with 1 person = €5
Cars with 2 people = €4
Cars with 3 people = €3
Cars with 4 or more = €2

All cars with IMRA folk on board should use the car park provided and leave any available roadside spaces for regular forest users.
Paul Morrissey2Jul 8 2013, 11:20pmHi Juju/Jesko. I'll be driving down early if you still need a lift. Exact time TBC. 086 one50 eight446.
Rachel CinnsealachJul 9 2013, 12:01amFolk's we still need a laptop operator for this race!!! Any volunteers?
Rachel CinnsealachJul 9 2013, 12:51pmWe have a "laptop teacher" on board.... so if someone could just put themselves forward to do the job,there will be someone there to show you what to do!!

Folks we really really need someone to step forward to do this.
Derek KellettJul 9 2013, 1:09pmRachel

I'll do it, I did the course a few months ago & was hoping to shadow first, but if needs must. Any guidance & help tomorrow would be much appreciated.


John CondonJul 9 2013, 1:26pmThanks Derek,

I'll add you to the Volunteer List.

John J BarryJul 9 2013, 1:57pmDerek,

I'll give you a hand on the laptop.

Jean O'NeillJul 9 2013, 2:57pmI still haven't replaced my stolen car-anyone going who can give me a lift from Swords-or somewhere else convenient? Thanks
Peter O'FarrellJul 9 2013, 11:19pmThis year's route is slightly different to the map shown on the event page.

Fear not though, route finder supreme Paul Mahon has discovered possibly the only wet boggy section in the entire forest to replace the unavailable section!

Route instructions:


thank you.
Anne HodgeJul 10 2013, 9:41amI'm a non-running volunteer.Just wondering what time I should be there?
Happy to do more or less anything just let me know. Driving from Merrion Square (one way).
Anne Hodge
John CondonJul 10 2013, 10:43amHi Anne,

I sent an s sheet out yesterday specifying all roles along with general info.

Can you confirm your email?


Paul MahonJul 10 2013, 10:52amAye surely - The race route close to the Lough Tay road is quite different this year to avoid the new (and very welcome) section of the Wicklow Way that keeps folk off the road as much as possible - Reduces overall race length by maybe a hundred meters or so but will not be any quicker ;-)!

As Peter says, even though most of the tracks are dry as a bone, there is some mud along the way and lots of branches both on ground and still on trees to be wary of.
It is definitely very varied terrain but tough and gnarly is probably an apt course description.
If this is what you like then you will "enjoy" we hope!

Don't assume the person in front of you is necessarily on track.

Follow the Red and White Tape :-)!
Juju JayJul 10 2013, 12:44pmAce sounds like fun Paul!!!! and just to add in the heat wave & fly's too..!!! WOW this race will be fun!!!... peace
Richie Mac LiamJul 10 2013, 1:08pmjean, i can pick you up on mountjoy sq at 5.45/6 if that is any use. please text 08five7251189. anyone else interested please text too. 1-2 available.
Richie Mac LiamJul 10 2013, 1:09pmjean, i can pick you up on mountjoy sq at 5.45/6 if that is any use. please text 08five7251189. anyone else interested please text too. 1-2 available.
Siobhain DugganJul 10 2013, 1:11pmHello, where is registration and what time does registration close at? I cant seem to find this information, many thanks and looking forward to the 'tough and gnarly' course :) Siobhain
John CondonJul 10 2013, 1:25pmHi Siobhain,

Registration opens at 6.15pm and closes at 7.15. It is located at the entrance of Ballinastoe Wood.

All the best
Niamh O'CeallaighJul 10 2013, 1:50pmHi John,
If you are online, could you drop me an email niamh dot oceallaigh at gmail dot com
I just have a query for you re tonights race.
Siobhain DugganJul 10 2013, 2:26pmThat's great, thanks John
John CondonJul 10 2013, 3:05pm@Anne

Please be at the Ballinastoe Carpark at 6pm.

Anne HodgeJul 10 2013, 3:21pmThanks John, sorry haven't access to that e-mail today.
Could you resend it to:
Will be at Balllinastoe Carpark at 6pm
John CondonJul 10 2013, 4:24pm***Owing to the difficulty and length of the route, Early Start will be at 7pm***

This is only applicable to IMRA Runners 160%+ of winning time
John CondonJul 10 2013, 4:31pm***Owing to the difficulty and length of the route, Early Start will be at 7pm***

This is only applicable to IMRA Runners 160%+ of winning time
Eamonn HodgeJul 10 2013, 10:26pmThanks to race director John and all the volunteers for slogging it out when the flies and midges descended!

What a rollercoaster route. The marking was flawless. I followed Peter O'Farrell's race tip of follow the tape. Thanks to Paul Mahon and Peter for picking out that great route. Who knew Ballinastoe had such variety.
James H CahillJul 10 2013, 11:45pmThank you John and all the volunteers for a great race today. Lots of variety - a fantastic course.
ELAINE O BRIEN LAWLORJul 10 2013, 11:56pmGreat race, really enjoyed it. I did get a bit lost but not for long, only added to the challenge. Surprisingly, it was my favourite race of the league so far?
ELAINE O BRIEN LAWLORJul 11 2013, 12:31amJust had a look at the results & I don't appear at all??? Came in about 100 minutes? Need to record this race in some measure I believe to finish the league??
Charlie LyonsJul 11 2013, 8:54amCongrats to Aidan Blighe for completing his 100th IMRA race last night in Ballinastoe and for gaining entry to the very exclusive club 100.

Well Done
Richard NunanJul 11 2013, 9:07amGreat Race last night, super route!!

Well done to John Condon and Derek Kellet last-night who had volunteered as Shadow Race Director and Shadow Laptop Operator.

We(Rachel) converted this into them taking up the primary roles assisted by experienced people who could then run.

This worked really well and is perhaps a process we will continue with for upskilling those Non Running Volunteers into those the core roles.
Paula KeohanJul 11 2013, 9:10amClass route brilliantly marked. I was sure I was going to get lost but every time I looked up there was more tape. It must have taken ye ages! Thanks guys, and all the volunteers. Now, if you could leave the markings so I can go back with my bike! ;-)
Fiona SheerinJul 11 2013, 9:11amCongrats also to Stuart Scott and Kevin O'Riordan for reaching 100 races. Well done guys.
Robert CostelloJul 11 2013, 9:30amI made the mistake of following the guy in front who followed the guy in front who followed the guy in front who took a wrong turn. Seven of us were left stranded on a mountain bike track about 500m off course. We followed the road and got back on course but missed the muddy fun. I'm down as finishing 12th but I missed almost 1km of the course and indicated that to the marshalls when I finished. There are a few others in the results that also took this turn. Some are down as DNF but some have placings. While I take the responsibility of making the wrong turn myself, I can't say I agree that the course was marked well. Not when 14 (plus) missed turns while others ended up doing the short course or going too long. The green 'route fully marked' flag was not justified for this race.

John RoweJul 11 2013, 9:37amThanks to the 2 first aid guys for patching me up at the finish. John
Brendan LawlorJul 11 2013, 10:04amEpic, epic race - lived up to its controversial history also. There was every underfoot condition imaginable last night, open mountain, bogs, forests darker than any cave,brambles, branches, potholes,bushes,mini stone mountains, flies and midges to beat the band, searing heat followed by cooling hill breezes - and all followed by a dip in the Vartry Lake - whats not to love!!

Thank you to John and all volunteers for a wonderful evening
Rachel CinnsealachJul 11 2013, 10:07amThe course was marked so well. A big thankyou to Peter who marked it, and to Greg you remarked it. I started about 7.10 pm and ran most of the route on my own, and time I wasn't sure where to go I'd look around and there was tape. The only reason you would go wrong is if you didn't look for the tape!!! That's entirely your own fault!!!

Rachel CinnsealachJul 11 2013, 10:07amThe course was marked so well. A big thankyou to Peter who marked it, and to Greg you remarked it. I started about 7.10 pm and ran most of the route on my own, and time I wasn't sure where to go I'd look around and there was tape. The only reason you would go wrong is if you didn't look for the tape!!! That's entirely your own fault!!!

Rachel CinnsealachJul 11 2013, 10:07amThe course was marked so well. A big thankyou to Peter who marked it, and to Greg you remarked it. I started about 7.10 pm and ran most of the route on my own, and time I wasn't sure where to go I'd look around and there was tape. The only reason you would go wrong is if you didn't look for the tape!!! That's entirely your own fault!!!

Rachel CinnsealachJul 11 2013, 10:10amSorry I didn't mean to post that three times.
aidan blighe Jul 11 2013, 10:15amCheers Charlie. So as not to avoid confusion though my profile only shows 99 but once donard results are added it will show 100.
Pretty happy to hit the 100 without any injury.
Congrats also to Stuart and Kevin. Some fine battles with Stuart over the years so apt we hit the 100 at the same time.
Warren SwordsJul 11 2013, 10:28amThanks to all the volunteers. Another well-organised race. Well done to Aiden, Kevin and Stuart for reaching the 100 club.

I went wrong on the course but it was entirely my fault. The first 15 or so and the early starters all went the right way. A train I was in went wrong but those close behind us all went the correct route.

I think we turned left at a fireroad just before the forest section rather than going straight across it and we ended up lower down on the MTB trail. Angus Tyner did try to give us a shout but that fell on deaf ears.

Just one of those things. We were all racing hard and you tend to stare at the feet in front rather than look for tape. Certainly wouldn’t blame the course marking, there was tape everywhere. Nor would I blame the person who was leading the train.

More annoyed at missing the great course rather than the DNF. It was my 7th LL race too. DNFs count right? ;)
Turlough ConwayJul 11 2013, 10:49amHard luck Robert...Its tough to go wrong in the heat of a race. Ive folowed people wrong many times too.
As you pointed out though, the leader in your group made the mistake of a wrong turn and the 6 made the mistake of following. 14 going wrong represents only 3-4 who actually missed a turn, which is very low in a long race with 170 people and a lot of turns.
Weve nearly all followed people the wrong way, its hard not to do.
To be certain of it not happening again, you need to be always wary and suspicious of routes and assume the dice has rolled you a disoriented group leader. Therefore, try to tactically put yourself at the front of these groups with clear sight in front of you so the route following is in your own hands.
Even if that goes wrong...leading a group astray is a lot less annoying than being led astray!
Paul SteeleJul 11 2013, 11:08amHi I am writing on behalf of Gordon Douglas race no 244 He hasn't registered for the Forum chat and he asked me to speak on his behalf. I asked him why he got a DNF and he was surprised to say the least. He says was dicing with Gene O'Neill race no 169 for the whole race and she beat him on the downhill and her time was recorded, so technically he should get a result as well. He wants to know is there a reason for his disqualification. Thanks.

PS They were both early starters.
Robert CostelloJul 11 2013, 11:11amTurlough. I agree. That should be the case for a partially marked course and a non marked course but a 'fully marked' course should be 'fully marked'. 14 are currently on the list as DNFs but there were more and there were others that went too long and finished well below what they normally do.

I take full responsibility for my actions but I find it alarming that so many people have come out praising the course markings when so many runners got it wrong. It's ignoring the issue and not constructive for improving IMRA races.

Mick HanneyJul 11 2013, 11:36amI haven't enjoyed a Wednesday race as much as last night for a long time. Thanks to John for coordinating and fine team of volunteers and particular thanks to Peter and Paul for that epic route.

I was behind Angus when I saw to my left that a line of runners (who were previously just ahead of us) were running I think on the MTB track and not on the marked track we were following. I shouted over but wasn't heard. We found our way according to the markers so as far as I'm concerned the marking was fine. Granted it needed concentration at times but thats expected. Also it needs awareness of runners around you, in this case us running in close proximity but on a different (marked) track. I commend the markers in fact as it must have been a nightmare to mark and demark.
John CondonJul 11 2013, 11:45am@ Paul & Robbie

As is done, some runners crossed the line covering their bibs to signify DNFs, they subsequently handed their numbers over to the finish marshall before they could be marked as DNFs. This caused some confusion at the finish line but will be rectified in due course.

Robbie, it's unfortunate that you and others went off course and as has been mentioned, all it takes is for one runner to make the wrong turn. It is the responsibility of each runner to look out for markings and not trust that the runner in front knows where they're going.
Eoin KeithJul 11 2013, 11:55amThere was absolutely nothing wrong with the marking last night whatsoever. I was with the lead group throughout the race, and even with some tight competive head to head racing we were able to find the course without problem. Everytime I looked for a marker I saw one. If anything, I would say the course erred on the side of being over-marked, with lots of intermediate "reassurance" tape attached to branches between junctions. So a big well done to Peter on doing such a thorough job on what is probably the biggest race marking task of the year.

As ever, it is each individuals own responsibilty to find their way around the course. Last nights race took a lot of concentration to run fast and stay on course. We've all made mistakes over the years when we haven't been concentrating enough on following the route, usually distracted by head to head racing. The best thing to do in these situations is learn from your mistakes and try not to repeat them.
Derek KellettJul 11 2013, 12:22pmMany thanks last night for all the help & encouragement.

Results queries
I have the manual results here.

Elaine, I have no idea why your result hasn't come up. I can remember you finishing you had a big grin (grimace ?) on your face as you finished. I can confirm you finished between runners 494 & 317, if you were an early starter add 31 minutes to your time.

Gordon, I can also remember you finishing, you came in at the same time as some lads who were DNFing and your time was not recorded. I have no doubt you know your time so that can be tweaked.

DNFs. The computer is a very simple programme that principally counts people out & then counts people back in, to make sure that nobody is left on the mountain. The results are a very happy consequence, that we all take great joy in. From my perspective, if DNFing, finish as one normally would, stay in line as your position is recorded & say it (do not cover your number). If it has already been noted well & good, but it can get a little frenetic with people running at you. Lat night when the last man was in we had a short list the computer said were still on the hill. Thankfully by checking the numbers back in the box we were able confirm that everybody was down. Unfortunately anybody on that list was DNFed (again sorry Gordon)

Gear; I have the 3 race boxes, bag of red T shirts, first aid kit, AED, cones, tables & somebodies runners. One of the lads took the marking kit though I think there are some bits left in Annes. Rachel took the laptop. I should be down around 6 next Wednesday but if someone wants the gear before hand let me know.

Thanks again, learnt lots & loads of room for improvement.


Robert CostelloJul 11 2013, 12:39pmEoin, if there was nothing wrong with the race marking then we wouldn't have had so many prople DNF because they took a wrong turn. I'm just looking at the evidence and the evidence suggests that something can be improved by the race organisers and the runners themselves (but not just the runners) to ensure that this does not happen in the future.
Rachel CinnsealachJul 11 2013, 12:42pmRobert,

I had no clue of the route and I found it. How would I find it if it wasn't marked! I ran the first 80% entirely on my own.

I vote you mark it next year.
Turlough ConwayJul 11 2013, 1:13pm"I made the mistake of following the guy in front who followed the guy in front who followed the guy in front who took a wrong turn."

You didnt take a wrong turn Colin. Like 85% of your group you followed someone who took a wrong turn. Thats not the same thing. Your talking about 3-4 people who made a route error and 10 people who followed these. Thats 3-4 people out of 170. That very low for such a course.
In fairness as one who "followed" it should be hard to point the finger at others without noticing the big finger pointing at yourself.
Eoin KeithJul 11 2013, 2:19pmRobert, The evidence is there that the race was fully marked. I saw it myself, mainly because I was actually looking for it. The vast majority of the field were able to find their way around the course without a problem. That's a massive amount of evidence.

There is nothing that IMRA as an organisation, or race markers as individuals, can do to help people who run a race without paying enough attention to look for race markers (and you identified yourself and several other people in your cluster of runners as being in this category). It doesn't matter how many markers are put out on the course if people don't look for them, or just blindly follow someone else who isn't looking for them.
Kieran RocksJul 11 2013, 2:43pmGreat varied course. It was well marked indeed (if you weren't a sheep) so fair play to the effort that was put in there. However, it wasn't all positive - the flies were a disgrace at times and the sun was in the eyes for the first climb.

2 lads just in front of me ran past a track that had about 6 obvious bits of tape hanging around, only I shouted. Guess it's about concentration and being observant, but everyone has different skills. I don't care about results at all, but that incident did give me a feeling of moral superiority, which is very enjoyable.

Maybe forget about taping altogether and just give everyone a map with the course to follow...
Paul Morrissey2Jul 11 2013, 2:58pm"Maybe forget about taping altogether and just give everyone a map with the course to follow..."

Dear God shoot me now, I'd end up finishing the Sugarbowl race somewhere on the far side of Laragh.

On the flies and midges, I do think we should start charging them for entry into the forest.
Peter O'FarrellJul 11 2013, 3:05pmWhere's the race reports, race reports wanted. And Race Directors as it happens. John Condon has now had to volunteer at the last minute for two races in a row, without John there would have been no race last night or last Sunday.

We all get lost occasionally, it happens in hillruns. C'est le vie. We have all got lost and we all learnt to keep a closer eye out for the tape. It's a proud tradition.

Follow the tape :)

It is notable that many of the folk saying the marking was acceptable have been around IMRA a long time and as such have many many experiences of following streamers of tape and from bitter experience know to keep both eyes peeled for tape.

Others who went the wrong way and feel the marking was sub-standard have gained a valuable experience and are now getting some education and doing some communication. It's all good.

The route marking guidelines ( click on the grey text “Race Marking Guidelines “ ) were primarily written with Coillte fireroads and well defined trails in mind. Ballinastoe goes out of it's way to avoid fireroads and well defined trails and as such it really is vital that you follow the tape and not the leader.

The main reason I volunteered to mark it was because it is so different to the usual run of events that it would be a shame to drop it (and I have a good chat with Paul as we recce the course on Tuesday)

The secondary reason I volunteered to mark it is that I think I'm a feckin brilliant race marker. There will not be any more tape out in Ballinastoe next year so if you feel it was only partially marked this year, pick a different race :)

In saying that 3/4 people getting lost is 3/4 too many.

In the spirit of not ignoring the issue;

The course was changed from the advertised route the day before the race and the course did not match the version on the event detail page. This is something that could be improved on and ideally I would have recced, re-organised and published the route the previous week. Mea Culpa.

Runners are not sufficiently aware of their responsibility to follow the tape. Vestra Culpa. (God bless Google for that one)

More Arrows - all the fireroad crossings could have had the excellent directional arrows. Mea Culpa.

Paul Morrissey2Jul 11 2013, 3:08pm"Maybe forget about taping altogether and just give everyone a map with the course to follow..."

Dear God shoot me now, I'd end up finishing the Sugarbowl race somewhere on the far side of Laragh.

On the flies and midges, I do think we should start charging them for entry into the forest.
Melanie EarwakerJul 11 2013, 3:54pmAny queries about results, please email them to me at melanie dot earwaker at imra ie. I'll put up an updated list of results in the next couple of days.
Angus TynerJul 11 2013, 3:57pmI followed the tape, he says smugly...

It seemed like about 10 directly in front carried on running on a parallel path, while I followed the tape (plenty of it) along rougher ground...with no runners in front...

I called out that the tape is here and kept on going as did the group on the parallel path. I then thought we were going to converge but they disappeared...

So the next 20 minutes or so I was navigating with a call or two from Mick behind confirming I still had tape. There was once or twice where I hesitated but then spotted the tape again.

In my opinion, the route was very adequately marked and Peter you are a "feckin brilliant race marker" :)

In fact my 11yo daughter was on her own for a lot of this section and she found the way, but then she had no one to lead her astray ;)

Speaking of which, Zoe is in the results as doing long course, she in fact did short course.
Mick HanneyJul 11 2013, 4:00pmIf Zoe can find her way around that proves something.

So, do we need people who are listed with times in the results, who missed out sections of the course, to declare themselves DNF? In fairness Robert appears to have done that.
Brendan LawlorJul 11 2013, 4:12pmThe laws of life include that prices will rise, politicians will philander and hillrunners will go astray no matter how well marked the route is, so as Roy Keane would say, ‘Get over it’….

The unintended but subtle consequence of this criticism (even constructive criticism) and mini controversy, is to discourage new race markers and race directors, which is not helpful.

Again thank you to John and Peter and all others for a well marked and superbly organised race - Damn dem flies!
Ruth JacksonJul 11 2013, 4:38pmThanks all. Favourite race of the year!
Ruth JacksonJul 11 2013, 4:39pmThanks all. Favourite race of the year!
Ruth JacksonJul 11 2013, 4:50pmThanks all. Favourite race of the year!
pat barryJul 11 2013, 6:03pmHas something gone wrong with the forum engine. There are a lot of repeated posts lately? It can't all be user error!

A bug the Captcha field does not appear on Chrome on Ubuntu.
Mick HanneyJul 11 2013, 6:34pmI answered Peter's call for a report. Anyone else? Eoin - a view from the front? Zoe - a junior view?
Paul SteeleJul 11 2013, 8:27pmHi Derek, Gordon was in touch and he says he was a minute approx behind Gene so you can put him down as 93.28 when its convenient. Thanks again.
Jean O'NeillJul 15 2013, 2:05amGORDON and PAUL--my name is JEAN-(not GENE). I agree that Gordon finished about 30 seconds behind me, we were ducking and diving the whole race-that is after I caught up with the early starters. Also a little bird told me that the early start started at 7.01pm, and the race proper at 7.31pm, a difference of 30 minutes (not 31). I started a few minutes after the early start and took my own time(which agrees with the race director's timing of me).
Rene BorgAug 10 2013, 9:43pmTeam results are up.
Rob O'NeillAug 15 2013, 10:49pmHi,

My result also seems to be missing. I'm number 1365.
Think I came in around position 22/23/24.


Rob O'Neill
Rob O'NeillAug 15 2013, 10:50pmSorry wrong forum thread