Ticknock Winter
Forum Messages
| Author | Date | Message |
|---|---|---|
| James Shanahan | Jan 12 2009, 3:43pm | Hi people, I am going to enter for my first mountain run in tick knock and I was wondering will I need special footwear or will a normal pair of trainers do the trick until I get the feel of mountain races?? Thansk in advance, Kind regards James |
| Mick Hanney | Jan 12 2009, 4:37pm | James, If you look at recent threads on the forum you will find a similar question asked and the response is more detailed than I could give here. Lets just say that while ordinary runners may be suitable for some courses where its mainly forest track you'd be advised to have some sort of trail shoes e.g. inov-8s, salomons, etc.. Regards, Mick |
| Rene Borg | Jan 12 2009, 4:39pm | For Ticknock Winter, the weather is all important. The tracks up there can be run quite alright in normal runners on a dry day. But if it gets wet or otherwise horrid (as we saw last year), the place can turn very muddy, or, even worse, very very icy (usually combined with lots of wind to throw you off balance). If the weather forecast looks anyway dodgy, I won't recommend anyone tries to complete this race in normal runners unless they have previous experience doing so (as I know some of our experienced runners seem able to run most hill races in racing flats!). -Rene |
| James Shanahan | Jan 14 2009, 1:05pm | Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated!! :) More footwear to get .. shish!! |
| Kieran Neary | Jan 15 2009, 9:30pm | Hi All, I'm thinking of making this my first mountain run also and was wondering about the registration details. Do we just need to arrive at Lamb Doyles sometime from 09:50 onwards before the race on the day? Does anyone know how much it is to enter the race? If not, how much was it in previous years? Thanks a mill.. Kieran. |
| Rene Borg | Jan 15 2009, 9:41pm | Hi Kieran, please follow the Beginners link at the bottom of the page, it'll provide you with all the information you need to get started including the entry fee and annual fee. For your information, are prices are stable at 10 euros for the annual registration and and 7 euros for the race fee. So bring along 17 euros and you'll be covered. Also, go to the Forms link below and download the 2009 registration form. If you fill this out in advance you'll save time registering on the day. I can't provide final registration details, but the Race Director for that race will communicate those shortly. |
| Kieran Neary | Jan 15 2009, 11:23pm | Excellent stuff.. thanks very much Rene for your help - answers all my Qs. Kieran |
| Diarmuid O'Colmain | Jan 19 2009, 2:28pm | This year's race is listed as 5.73k and 288m climb, compared with last year's of 8.8k and 380m climb, but the same route is shown on the map. So I wonder is the map right (same course as last year) and the distance wrong, or the other way around? |
| Dermot Murphy | Jan 19 2009, 2:52pm | The map that is up at the moment is last years route. The correct distance and elevation for this route is 8.8km and 380m of ascent. So if the route is the same as last year, the distance and elevation as stated are incorrect and they should by 8.8km and 380m respectively. |
| Rene Borg | Jan 19 2009, 3:09pm | Hi Dermot, The only thing that is currently set in stone for this route is that it will not be the long 10.5km (original Ticknock Winter) route. Peter is looking at options for a shorter and more straightforward winter version especially given the current conditions of the trails up there. In the meantime the system has simply pulled in the default figures for the Ticknock Winter event. I won't change these until we've decided on the exact route to use as we will just be changing them back again. For everyone's information, however, we are looking at a route in the region of 7-8km of length. Climb is currently unknown but it will be roughly in the region of 350m. -Rene |
| Eoin Keith | Jan 20 2009, 11:41pm | What is wrong with last years route? It was the standout race of the winter league last year. People were still talking about it months later. Was it too popular? Conditions change up there day by day. Current conditions have no impact on what it will be like in two weeks time. As it happens some of the best races in the history of the winter league have taken place in the most trecherous conditions, and it was the conditions that made them so good. Look up the photos from the old Balinastoe winter race for examples. |
| cormac o ceallaigh | Jan 21 2009, 8:36am | I second that Eoin,Yes last years route was super, i would suggest we leave good alone. |
| Rene Borg | Jan 21 2009, 8:40am | Ok, in an attempt to avoid any emotive argument and personal anecdotes (as it seems to be the season for that on these boards just now), I'll try and answer this in Bullet Points, from the top: 1). The Ticknock Winter route depicted on the website is not last years, it's the University Championship from 2007. This is the longest Ticknock race and the current consideration is to move this version (or something similar to the LL). Again a firm decision is yet to be made on this and will be made with the Race Director at the time. 2). The Summer and Winter Ticknock routes keep shifting every single year for a few reasons: - Erosion of certain areas or other terrain conditions (black ice) - Experimentation (e.g. "get rid of more tarmac this time") - Inability to recreate previous routes (e.g. too race markers not finding correct route or Race Director not knowing exactly what it should be either) This constant shifting leads to it being difficult to track both your personal bests and the overall record from year to year as well as making tasks more difficult for volunteers (volunteer needs weighing heavily on the agenda here). 3). At the last Committee meeting we wanted to address this by seeing if a Ticknock winter route could be found that encompassed the following principles - Simple and straightforward - Easily replicable - Short enough for the Winter League to avoid long-term exposure (point on this: a very large number of first-time Mountain Runners ventured out in the difficult conditions last year) - Take in the "best" parts of the area - Have potential to become the "permanent" WL Ticknock fixture A loose 7-8km mark was set down as being "reasonable" (which I think was in line with last year). Now, the final point of what is "best" is, of course, subjective, so here two points must be kept in mind: 1. No route would be a reinvention of the wheel, because A) there is a limited amount of route choices suitable for a League race and B) previous routes already encompassed the majority of the "best parts" (these may be popular because they are well-known only rather than on their unique merit, but let's not waste time and debate that as it will lead nowhere). 2. Peter O'Farrell volunteered to have a look at the area to find an "optimal" route. This means: 1. Last year's route could, theoreticaly, be deemed the optimal 2. It is possible to improve on something that was already good (Eoin's post seems to me to make an assumption it isn't) 3. This year's route could very well be a minor variation on last year's. If we somehow manage to regress the experience, the Committee will take the feedback on board and pass it on to next year's Committee. You live, and you learn, but if you don't try you never improve, you stagnate. Ok, time for the morning coffee... |
| Peter O'Farrell | Jan 21 2009, 4:57pm | Hi, I think Rene has answered the life out of this but anyway; The winter league is a very common and popular path into hillrunning for beginners based in Leinster. Beginners are not as experienced as regulars and therefore have a higher likelihood of getting into difficulty. The winter league takes place in the winter :) - weather conditions can be atrocious so an emphasis is placed on beginner requirements in these races. These races are not designed for the tough (wo)men, IMRA has weekend championships in the spring and summer for the hardcore hillrunners and the AAI have cross country races in the winter for the hardcore club runners. The Ticknock race organisers might decide to go with last year's route but have committed to looking into other possibilities. kind regards, Peter |
| Eoin Keith | Jan 22 2009, 12:16am | Comprehensive answers there lads. Firstly, thanks for taking the time to reply, and even moreso, thanks for all the effort that goes into organising the winter league. Now, I honestly don't know the answer to the following question... Given that last years race took place in as bad conditions as we're ever likely to get, and that plenty of new runners ran in the race, did many of these new runners either get into trouble, or give negative feedback about last years race? A year or two ago a trail race league was organised which took place between the popular mountain running winter leages and Leinster League. I would guess that one of the objectives of this series was to gently introduce newcomers to hill-running. Very few runners turned up to these races, and the series has not been repeated since. This to me would seem to indicate that newcomers to mountain runners are looking for a mountain running experience, and not a cut down version of it. Who decided that the winter league is a beginner's league. I don't think it was established for this purpose, and this is the first time I've heard that it's official policy that this should be the case. I think Gerry Lalor's thread is timely! I'll make a prediction here that one of the items up for discussion at next year's AGM will be how to control numbers as a result of the huge influx of new members. You won't have to look far for answers. Rene, I understand all the reasons why routes change due to circumstances, and I don't really care about comparing times or course records. However this race isn't being changed due to circumstances. It is being changed deliberatly as a matter of policy. This seems crazy to me. The reason I question the deliberate decision to change this race is simply because it was such a huge success last year. " if you don't try you never improve, you stagnate" does not apply here as much as "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". |
| Paul Mahon | Jan 22 2009, 8:25am | As the recently "appointed" Race Director for the Ticknock WL race all can rest easy that this will be a race designed for all to enjoy. It will not be the same course as last year but rest assured it will not be a plod up and down fire trail and tarmac. We are not going to take in the summit of Fairy Castle as it is soft n boggy terrain which is liable to erosion on all 3 of the paths leading to the top and to take 150+ runners up there at this time of the year would I believe be somewhat irresponsible. We are hoping to have a map of the provisional new course up on the site by tomorrow at the latest and a final check on approx dis, climb, newly fallen trees etc will be done over the weekend. The start will be from Ticknock Forest entrance with Car Pooling And Race Registration from Taylor's Three Rock Pub - Only cars with a minimum of 4 on board will be allowed into the forest. Given the numbers expected at this race it would help if some of the early arrivals could use the alternative car park at Marlay Park - on road parallel to the motorway - this is approx 3 min jog back to Taylors. Given the large numbers of new runners that must be registered into the data base we will close the registration at 10.30 am Sharp. If you are not in the Queue by this time then you will not be registered for the race. You can of course run anywhere on the mountain you like but please do not interfere with the race and Do Not Pass Through The Finish. To aid speedy registration it would help greatly if runners could download and complete in advance the Registration Form from this site http://www.imra.ie/ad-hoc/IMRA_MembershipForm_2009.pdf Registration for 2009 is €10 and Race entry is €7 - exact change saves time! In the interim we are looking for volunteers for this race so please don't hesitate to volunteer (ref the Volunteer page for requirements) directly to me at paul.mahon@imra.ie We need some marshalls on the hill and some people for the finish also who cannot be runners. For those keen to run there are Registration, De-Marking of course and Car Park Marshall duties - this latter duty may be shared between 2 runners to allow each to warm up for the race |
| niamh o ceallaigh | Jan 26 2009, 9:13pm | The very popular Trail League at the summer is for those who want a gentle introduction to the world of hill running. I don't believe it was ever the intention that the winter league should be aimed at meeting the requirements of "beginners". What are the requirements of beginners anyway? People who are new to hill running gererally want to get stuck in and experience the exileration of running off a peak in howling wind and hail. It's what it's all about!! Regarding the potential to replicate a precise route year on year: I don't think pbs are relevant in our sport. All that I look out for is if Eva and Jim beat me last year or not and how far behind my Dad I was and to a lesser extent percentage of winning time. Changing conditions and inevitable route variations due to fallen trees etc make records / pbs meaningless in my view (though if it was me setting them, perhaps I would think differently! :-) ) |
| Paul Mahon | Jan 27 2009, 9:53am | Rest easy all - the route has been set for Sunday's race and it is suitable for all to enjoy mountain running! I am currently experiencing some difficulty in updating the route details and map onto the site but it is estimated that the full course will be about 9.9km (As measured by someone else's geek gadget!). I estimate the climb to be around 360m and winning time to be something around 42-45 minutes depending on who turns up, how fast they run etc :-)! A junior course will be provided which is about 2.4km shorter than the full route. Some Q's have been asked re suitable footware for mountain running. You can run in a pair of racing flats if you want (And indeed the current record for Carrauntoohil was set by the legendary 1991 World Champion John Lenihan wearing such footware) but for this coures in present conditions I would recommend something with plenty of good grip be that specialised fell running or trail shoes. If conditions are "inclement" then we may impose a requirement to bring an cagoule/ jacket on the race so please come prepared - We will confirme if this is a requirement at registration. To repeat parts of earlier message on this event:- The start will be from Ticknock Forest entrance with Car Pooling And Race Registration from Taylor's Three Rock Pub - Only cars with a minimum of 4 on board will be allowed into the forest - pleasae park in lay-by areas not on roads. Given the numbers expected at this race it would help if some of the early arrivals could use the alternative public car park at Marlay Park particularly if you do not intend coming to the pub after the race - on road parallel to the motorway - this is approx 3 min jog back to Taylors. Given the large numbers of new runners that must be registered into the data base we will close the registration at 10.30 am Sharp. If you are not in the Queue by this time then you will not be registered for the race. You can of course run anywhere on the mountain you like but please do not interfere with the race, do not drive up to the forest and block up roads, entrances, race route, etc and Do Not Pass Through The Finish. To aid speedy registration it would help greatly if runners could download and complete in advance the Registration Form from this site http://www.imra.ie/ad-hoc/IMRA_MembershipForm_2009.pdf Registration for 2009 is €10 and Race entry is €7 - exact change saves time! Prize giving will be in Taylor's and apparently they have decent Sunday carvery offering too :-)! In the interim we are Still looking for some volunteers for this race so please don't hesitate to volunteer (ref the Volunteer page for requirements) or directly to me at paul.mahon@imra.ie We need some marshalls on the hill and some people for the finish also who cannot be runners. For those keen to run there are Registration and Car Park Marshall duties - this latter duty may be shared between a few runners to allow each to warm up for the race. |
| Rene Borg | Jan 28 2009, 8:56am | HI all, Paul's map is now loaded. -Rene |
| Thomas McLoughlin | Jan 28 2009, 4:40pm | Hi, I think last year there were course profiles uploaded. I found these very useful for preparation. Is there a reason why we've done away with these? Even a rough graph displaying the ascent/descent over the distance would be useful. Cheers. Tom. |
| Justin Rea | Jan 28 2009, 4:46pm | Nice route Paul. Sort of a "Clock around the Rocks" ;-) I did an easy paced recce in just on an hour. It's a fine mixture of sharp ascents followed by cruising contours, finishing with long descents. If start is at twelve on a clock face, I'd summarise the route as follows: 1 to 3 O'Clock starts on 'new' track up to 2nd barrier, familiar run at base of forest before switch to single-track around 'E' side of Three-Rock. Three short tough climbs at lower masts, fenceline and back towards main path to watch out for. Steady ascent then to u-wave mast before long contour run to 6 O'Clock, steep climb to Two-Rock, then back along fence. Left turn again along contour line with risk of icy spots if cold. Runners that have saved a bit from climbs will cover good ground on these three relatively flat sections. At 9 O'Clock turn back on Wicklow Way for technical descent through forest. Route crosses to forest road with one short climb before easy run in to finish. There are only a few puddles to negotiate, as Paul has deftly avoided any boggy sections. No problem for anyone that can do 10k. |
| Paul Mahon | Jan 29 2009, 8:34am | Thanks for the thumbs up Justin - nice way of describing it too. Just to remind all that the "Sting in the Tail" finish loop that is used in the summer race will again be incoporated in this race to give the finish officials a chance to note runner numbers. With the new manufactured path descent toward the end there is a very sharp right turn into the forest and before the tarmac. Just a reminder of the Race Start time - it is 11am with registration closing at 10.30 sharp We have a full compliment of volunteers for the event so thanks to all the "Hands Up" sorts. Another chance for the next race in Annacurragh - don't be shy! |
| Rene Borg | Jan 29 2009, 8:33pm | On the route profiles, these haven't been "done away with", it's simply that we either need a volunteer with the OSI software to generate this for us for new routes, or we need a copy of a profile generated by someone with a watch who's run these routes. As we haven't been able to get any for the new Ticknock, among others, we won't be able to provide a profile until we do. I won't be out with my Garmin for this race, but if anyone get's the profile, do send me the image file and I will have it ready for next year's league. |
| Eoin Keith | Feb 1 2009, 4:02pm | Well done to all the organisers today. It was a great race. The route was challenging, and used the area around 3-rock very effectively, whilst still avoiding the most sensitive parts of the mountain. The marking was spot-on as well. Even the JCB had tape hanging from it! |
| Justin Rice | Feb 1 2009, 4:56pm | I brought my watch what format do you want it in? send me a mail on justin.f.rice@gmail.com and i'll send it Those of you who want a look go to http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/7549442 |
| Robert Healy | Feb 1 2009, 6:06pm | I would just like to thank Dermot Murphy, the first aid officer, for fast and efficient treatment post race. I was being patch up about 5 seconds after finishing. Thanks again, Rob |
| niamh o ceallaigh | Feb 1 2009, 7:32pm | Thanks a mil to the organizers today. Super race. Well done to those who devised the route. I think it had something for everyone. I'd like to encourage those new to the sport to come to the pub afterwards for the prizegiving. It is a great way to get to know people and the post race analasys is always fun. You are also in with a chance to win a spot prize. The pub is usually announced at the start of the race, but if you are unsure of how to get there, just ask around. Niamh |
