Unwaged
| Author | Date | Message |
|---|---|---|
| Alicia Christofi-Walshe | Mar 11 2024, 1:37pm | There was no unwaged option for last week's Ticknock Race and I see there's no unwaged option for this Friday night's race. There's also no discounted membership fee either for unwaged runners. Will this be updated soon? Many thanks, Alicia |
| Jeff Swords | Mar 11 2024, 1:49pm | There's a discounted price of 5 for both of those events when applicable. |
| Alicia Christofi-Walshe | Mar 11 2024, 2:23pm | Thanks Jeff. I was told last week by a committee member that there was no unwaged option. Was that incorrect? The discounted price for race fees is for over 65s and under 18s. So do unwaged runners buy these discounted tickets? And if so, can the word unwaged be added to avoid future confusion? Additionally, I didn't see unwaged for membership fee. Can that too be added? Thanks |
| Eoin Keith | Mar 11 2024, 4:09pm | Posting here with my Webmaster hat on simply to outline the facts! There has never been an unwaged option for online entries. Reduced fees (and memberships) are automatically applied for anyone under 18 or over 65. We can do this as we have every runner's year of birth to enable us to categorise their results correctly. No extra information is required, or any additional work for any volunteers. Once this was coded in the website it has worked automatically ever since. We do not have information about our runners in the website which would enable the system to automatically apply a reduced rate for other criteria. This was discussed and agreed by the committee at the time online entries were introduced. |
| Maggie Lawler | Mar 11 2024, 4:16pm | Is it possible to have the website updated to facilitate an unwaged person? The cost of €7 isn't much, if you have it. But a lot for many unwaged people. With a healthy €75,000 bank balance for 2023 (please correct me if I'm wrong on that number) a website developer could look at that and be compensated without any need for extra volunteer time. |
| Louis Mullee | Mar 11 2024, 4:25pm | Hi Everyone, The IMRA sustainability inclusion and accessibility sub committee is working on a number of proposals to create a more inclusive and accessible IMRA for all members, the sub committee are still reviewing inputs from the membership and working on proposals and potential solutions and when finalised will be sent to the committee for consideration in due course. If you wish to make a submission please drop me an email at ordinarymember at imra dot ie https://www.imra.ie/news/view/id/654/ |
| Maggie Lawler | Mar 11 2024, 4:33pm | The sub committee was proposed in 4 months ago and there's still no solution for unwaged people. |
| Brian Kitson | Mar 11 2024, 6:38pm | Rather than trying to figure out a knotty puzzle of how IMRA might track members’ respective “unwaged” status from race to race, I propose a workaround that, even if I do say so myself, rather brilliantly, if not a tad self-servingly*, solves the issues raised in TWO current threads. Give the discount to Race Directors! Not only would this (genius solution*) reward existing RDs but it would also encourage greater numbers of unwaged people to direct a race. :) As a more serious aside, Eoin Keith might not appreciate this suggestion as it could be tricky to implement, but it would be wonderful if a discount could be applied for loyal members who race many times per year (like the €5 per race cost with the old paper vouchers). Maybe a digital coffee cup loyalty type system could be introduced so members get a FREE race after every 8 races paid for? *will be an RD in the coming weeks (need volunteers) |
| Richard Nunan | Mar 11 2024, 7:05pm | Brian, if hypothetically we raised the race fees, like the ask of the last 3 years. We would be at 10 Euro. So because we didn't you and your fellow Genii already have a discount. We did decide to spend additional on equipment and post-race food instead as that was the ask at the AGM. Rich |
| Dara O'Brien | Mar 11 2024, 7:24pm | €7 is already really cheap for quality races. Trying to implement a system to offer restricted discounts will increase costs and complexity which would ultimately cost the association. There’s an old saying that goes ‘a camel is a horse designed by a committee’- It’s great that everyone has a chance to have a say in all matters but if common sense and pragmatic decisions aren’t made along the way, you soon find that you end up with something that isn’t really what anyone actually wanted and doesn’t work as well as it did before people started sticking bits on to it. |
| Robbie Williams | Mar 11 2024, 8:54pm | Agree with Above Imra IS a discounted association. People also should have a value in what they buy. You value nothing you get for free. €7 for a race (and more often a drink and a sambo) is crazy cheap. It’s like asking for a discount on the “33% off “ stuff at Aldi Also, no way as far as I can see to govern the process. |
| Steven Pettigrew | Mar 12 2024, 10:25pm | Bit late to the discussion and it appears to be done but thought I'd add something anyway. It looks like the request here is for IMRA.ie to hold information on runners employment status. Surely this isn't the case but if it is; I had a government job where I had to learn whether or not individuals were unemployed. Before getting access to the databases with this information we needed to do a course to understand GDPR as well as being Garda vetted. I'm also a qualified web designer so have a vague understanding of the complexities involved in implementing and hosting information like this. Expecting volunteers to implement a change on a hill running website to host sensitive information about members employment information and then holding all of that information for the sake of 2 euro is just a really bad idea for so many reasons. |
| Greg Robins | Mar 12 2024, 10:41pm | Could you add the option of a "Suspended entry" to the shop so generous members could buy an entry that could be used by someone who needs it? |
| liam kenny | Mar 13 2024, 7:12am | Remember IMRA is ran by volunteers for people who want to enjoy the outdoors away from the daily struggles or even the social aspect, so time for this to wrap up let's bring the positives back. If IMRA is not for you your missing the concept of the organisation, |
| Andrew Howard | Mar 13 2024, 8:49am | Agree with Robbie 100%. Anything under €20 for a marshalled, signposted, timed running race is crazy crazy cheap these days, You will pay at least €20 for a one-day licence at any Triathlon Ireland or Cycling Ireland organised event, that;s before you even pay the race fee itself. Similarly, road running races run by local clubs are in the €20-€30 bracket these days. IMRA is by far the best bang-for-buck outdoor racing organization, we are lucky to have it, lucky to have the volunteers, and a very modest race fee is not a big ask at all. |
| Peter O'Farrell | Mar 13 2024, 1:04pm | I love IMRA as much as the next human but by far the best bang for buck option is the one that costs zero bucks so Parkrun is the option for free timed runs. |
| Kevin O'Riordan | Mar 13 2024, 1:48pm | Do they pay you to run if you're on the dole? |
| Dáithí de Mórdha | Mar 13 2024, 8:36pm | IMRA Races are fantastic value already in my opinion. The most I've paid for an IMRA race was €35 (Slí Chorcaí half) which was less than half of my local road half (Dingle), and I got a free pizza! Plus, the craic and the friendliness of IMRA has no comparison in the bigger commercial races. I completely understand the cost of living crisis and the pressure people are under, but you'll be hard pressed to find better value than €7 for an epic race in beautiful surroundings. |
| Deirdre Galvin | Mar 13 2024, 10:37pm | 7 euro is an absolute steal. I see my 'unwaged' school students spend that, and more, on crisps and sweets every lunchtime. |
| Anon Anon | Mar 14 2024, 7:45am | New member here, hoping to compete in IMRA events once Paris road marathon is out of the way Perhaps an IMRA committee member can advise, are the comments/responses to this post generally reflective of IMRA policy and members' attitudes towards the unwaged? |
| Maggie Lawler | Mar 14 2024, 7:46am | Hilary I am not a committee member, but some of the committee members have commented on this thread. The lack of an unwaged option is more disappointing when you take into consideration that the biggest expense of the races seems to be the post race catering. At least €1500 was spent on one post race social event in 2023. |
| Kevin O'Riordan | Mar 14 2024, 8:00am | Ah here, Hillary, not sure is this one of those asking for yourself questions or if you're being recruited in to provide backup for someone else in the thread but if you can afford to travel to Paris to do a marathon, you can afford to pay 7 euro for a race. Did Paris marathon offer unwaged discount? Did the airline? Did the hotel? All those things are orders of magnitudes more expensive than IMRA and have teams of paid developers to implement any system for verifying unwaged status. Surely a better use of your lobbying time. |
| Jason Dowling | Mar 14 2024, 8:50am | For those who advocate a discount for people who's sole income is from social welfare payments, can you please detail what solution you are proposing and how the current process is expected to change to facilitate this? All I'm seeing is criticism that it is not implemented yet I haven't seen one proposed solution for reduced payments from anyone. I note that people are disappointed that there is no option for people who are unwaged. I would be curious as to why these people are disappointed given that it has already been stated that it was never an option? Does the disappointment stem from other sports organisations offering this option, and if so, can you please list the organisations that do this? Also, items of this nature can be raised at the AGM each year. With all the disappointment floating about, why wasn't this raised at previous AGMs so that the membership can discuss the issue properly and have a proper vote on it? As a final question, if something like this is to be implemented, does it get decided by the committee or by a vote to the membership? However, I do like my sambos at the end of a race and am very happy with the current fee structure. |
| Maggie Lawler | Mar 14 2024, 9:04am | There could easily be some free races/events/series planned for the calendar, especially if the biggest cost of holding races is the sandwiches. This was raised at the last AGM and with the committee last year. With a healthy bank balance for the last 2 years and ongoing AI funding, its not an unreasonable ask. |
| Ray Chambers Curtin | Mar 14 2024, 9:27am | Hey all, Waged or unwaged! You are still getting great value for money at IMRA events. Looking to save a couple of euro here and there isn't going to break the bank. What amazes me more is I have met many people on social welfare and they complain about their free house kinda, reduced utility bills and their weekly allowance. But they still have time for drinking and smoking. Yeah the cost of living is what it is whether your employed or not. There's a lot more people out there in extreme circumstances. |
| Joan Ryan | Mar 14 2024, 9:30am | I have to add. At the end of the gruelling Wicklow Way Half last Saturday possibly the best thing was after finishing it to be able to go over and eat a delicious warm sausage roll! I am not long a member of Imra but after joining last year was totally shocked at how cheap the races were after spending close to a hundred euros before at difference racing events. I think the volunteers and people looking after the running of Imra are absolute heros. 7 euro for a race is absolute buttons. The mountains are out there for anyone any day of the week to go and venture in if they dont want to pay. I think Imra is doing an exceptional job. Keep it up guys |
| Warren Swords | Mar 14 2024, 9:30am | Reminds me of the old joke - How do you know if someone is doing a marathon? Don’t worry they’ll tell you. Don’t need to be an internet sleuth to see what is going on in this thread. Best wishes to Louis and the IMRA sustainability inclusion and accessibility sub committee who are working on a number of proposals to create a more inclusive and accessible IMRA for all members. |
| Jason Dowling | Mar 14 2024, 9:34am | So why wasn't the issue of having some free races/events/series planned for the calendar raised as a motion at a previous AGM so that the member ship could vote on it? You still haven't addressed how this would be maintained and implemented. How many races are you proposing should be free? Do these races apply to Leinster, Munster, the South East and/or the West league? How many people are you estimating will be entered free into these races? Taking the current race calendar, could you please indicate what races you think should/could be free to facilitate your proposal? Can you give a costing on this and also detail other impacts it may have such as on IT infrastructure? Can you detail how you expect the unwaged people to get to the race given public transport is non-existent for the vast majority of races. Is the after race food to be discontinued to facilitate the new unwaged structure and what other changes to existing events are you proposing to facilitate your desire for an unwaged option? I'm seeing very little detail in terms of a proper proposal from people advocating a change for the unwaged. |
| Brendan Lawlor | Mar 14 2024, 9:42am | Hi Maggie Post race food ( when it happens) is nowhere near IMRA’s main expense, it’s not even in the top 5. I requested it be increased at the last AGM as I felt the allowance was inadequate, and the proposal met with broad support. Hillrunners love their sambos whenever they ( the said sambos) turn up ! Louis Mullee has already indicated the appropriate way to try get your suggestions considered. ( see earlier in the thread). Others here have raised the very real practical challenges with getting information on people’s income status, and then dealing with that on an ongoing basis. |
| Anon Anon | Mar 14 2024, 9:43am | Wow, Yeah I'm running a marathon. Yeah I'm proud of it. Go bully someone else. Can IMRA please refund my membership and delete my details from your website |
| Barry O'Neill | Mar 14 2024, 9:45am | I don't see an issue with asking the question and personally i thing an unwaged option would be a good call. However the reasons and rational given in response are convincing so on balance I think the status quo is the way to go. Now, saying all that and speaking of someone who has spent time on "the dole" some of the comments above are disgraceful and I sincerely hope these views are not a reflection of this wonderful organization as a whole. Thanks, Barry. |
| Maggie Lawler | Mar 14 2024, 11:29am | I agree Barry. And not only people who are unemployed but people with disability, people seeking international protection and other intersections would benefit. The sandwiches shouldn’t be the main focus of the conversation. |
| Anon Anon | Mar 14 2024, 11:38am | Wow. Obvs I'm not currently unemployed I have been in the past. No I haven't been "recruited" by anyone. I saw the thread while looking for races and was disgusted to read the comments. What planet are you people on. I've never seen such classist judgemental snobbery in my life. Many people are unwaged for different reasons, unemployment, sta at home parents, lone parents, disability, refugees and asylum serkers and so on Oh and yes when I was on the dole I spent your taxes on fags and booze, even crisps and sweets sometimes. A local history society where Committees members are aged in 70s and 80s has an unwaged option for mbership and events. Anyway over and out Good luck with the running, and the classist snobbery. I'm sure I makes y'all happy. |
| Conor O'Farrell | Mar 14 2024, 11:47am | But you didn't spend it on IMRA races, did you Hilary. You waited for them to be free! :-) |
| Kevin O'Riordan | Mar 14 2024, 11:49am | I'm sure all those groups mentioned would love some free sandwiches. If IMRA was charging commercial prices for races there might be something to discuss here. But the policy has always been to keep prices low across the board for everyone for inclusivity reasons. And by coming up with all these examples, you're sort of proving why that's a better policy than getting bogged down in trying to assess who's deserving of the 2 euro discount and who isn't. Plenty of waged people out there who struggle financially. Low prices for everyone, it's the fairest way. If there's a particular group who you feel is particularly deserving of extra help, there are probably far more impactful ways of helping. Like organising lifts to races, running gear donations etc., free food after the race! I remember having a job that didn't pay very well in the past and the race fees were nowhere near the top of the expenses list. If a person doing say 10 races a year saves 2 euro a race, that's only 20 euro saved. Really not worth a web developers time implementing a system to do so, not to mention volunteer time at races validating social welfare cards etc. |
| patrick Rowe | Mar 14 2024, 11:52am | Self employed carpenter here, rained 3 days this week! Can i get a discount or free sambo at maurice mullins finish much appreciated |
| liam kenny | Mar 14 2024, 11:55am | This is getting out of hand now, Let's go back to start where this began, this was never about the unwaged to be truthful, it was about a group of people due to circumstances beyond them who arrived here. By the way some fantastic athletes too I think 10 or 11 were at ticknock ( could be wrong) I was at same meeting where this was spoke about and how to implement a solution to how something can be done to discount fees for people in such circumstances, but yet when asked everyone couldn't come with a solution, with so many stumbling blocks due to GDPR and so on, or even to maintain the workings, this is a volunteer base committee for someone or few people to have personal information stored on a personal laptop it isn't that simple, So to see this thread started with no solution is just pathetic if I'm honest |
| Louis Mullee | Mar 14 2024, 11:56am | Hi Everyone, as always I love the diverse range of opinions from the IMRA communities, I do feel that we are now at the point where some of the posts on here are not in line with the forum netiquette and principle of being respectful of others. So I would kindly ask everyone to read and reflect on the Netiquette before posting any additional messages. I particularly like the one below "Try hard to understand the opinions of others before reacting to them. If you strongly disagree with something, it is good practice to delay your input for 24 hours, or at least overnight, before responding." As previously mentioned there is already a Sustainability, Inclusion and Accessibility sub committee in place and looking at Ideas (and thank you for all the suggestions) and practical ways to make the organisation more sustainable, inclusive and accessible for all. It all wont happen overnight as we are all volunteers and our resources are limited, but the sub committee has committed their personal time and is committed to finding practical and implementable solutions over the short, medium and long term, and I know everyone in IMRA will be there to help when needed. The email address for suggestions, feedback, and volunteering on the sub committee remains open! ordinarymember at imra dot ie https://www.imra.ie/netiquette |
| Kevin O'Riordan | Mar 14 2024, 11:57am | Like IMRA races were 7 euro 20 years ago and the value of money has nearly halved since then with inflation. IMRA could have easily justified a price increase in that 20 years but we've always decided against it as we wanted to be inclusive to people whatever their income level. |
| Anon Anon | Mar 14 2024, 12:01pm | Oh I didn't realise children were members here till I saw Conor's post with a helpful passive aggressive emoji. I understand teenagers like to use emojis. I haven't waited for any races to he free. I'm focused on road for now. Ii' I'm happy to pay for them or even pay a higher cost to subsidise unwaged people. As I said, good luck to all. |
| Steven Pettigrew | Mar 14 2024, 12:04pm | Hilary - since you didn't provide a name of this group you used as an example I decided to find one myself to hopefully shed more light on how good we have it here. The Women's History Association of Ireland has an option for the unwaged. It appears to be an honour system where you need no proof of your wage status (which leaves it open dor exploits) and the discount brings it down to 15 euro. This is 5 euro more expensive than the annual IMRA membership and 8 euro more than a standard IMRA race. I hope this helps. |
| patrick Rowe | Mar 14 2024, 12:06pm | Kevin your right €7 is crazy cheap for what effort goes into these races ,onwards and upwards everyone,,,,,,not the 7 blip hopefully |
| Miriam Maher | Mar 14 2024, 12:12pm | Morning all..actually the afternoon now. I’ve been tracking with increasing dismay this thread between work calls. We fully believe that every member of IMRA has the right to offer their views on all aspects of our races and the organisation itself. It seems safe to say that a wide diverse range of views have now been ventilated. But as Louis outlined above - there’s a limit to what’s acceptable debate. All those within IMRA have avenues to put forward suggestions and solutions. Please use those. Change is welcome. Trust that every member of the committee is fully occupied on an ongoing basis in endeavouring to deliver on the races that make up our unique running community. We are also committed to always looking at ways to improve that racing experience and ensuring that unreasonable barriers don’t exist to prevent anyone from taking part. So please let’s focus on enjoying the races and the benefits they bring us all. Wishing everyone a lovely long St Patrick’s Weekend. Hope the hills feature at some stage for all of you Miriam |
| Conor O'Farrell | Mar 14 2024, 12:17pm | Hilary, wind your neck and pick up your toys. It was a simple joke to lighten the mood based on your fags and drink message. If you are too stupid to realise that, you should not be fighting battles with your keyboard on a public forum. |
| Ray Chambers Curtin | Mar 14 2024, 12:19pm | Sweet Jaysus! Your some piece of work. |
| Barry O'Neill | Mar 14 2024, 12:22pm | Well, I'll say one thing. This thread has certainly opened my eyes. |
| patrick Rowe | Mar 14 2024, 12:23pm | Well said miriam |
| Dáithí de Mórdha | Mar 14 2024, 12:29pm | Please observe Rule 101 of netiquette: Play the ball, not the (wo)man https://www.imra.ie/netiquette |
| Anon Anon | Mar 14 2024, 12:35pm | A piece of work and stupid! Jaysus. Thanks lads, never got a better compliment! |
| Conor O'Farrell | Mar 14 2024, 12:41pm | Jaysus. You're the one who started throwing around the insults! |
| Conor O'Farrell | Mar 14 2024, 12:42pm | Also, sorry for blaspheming on a holy weekend. :-) (and sorry for a further emoticon) |
| Liam Cotter | Mar 14 2024, 1:15pm | Thanks Miriam, very well said. This thread may give a rather jaundiced view of IMRA, however my experience has been nothing but great races, organised and run by a very kind, generous and humble group of people. I echo your sentiment that an issue like fee concessions etc. is better discussed at committee rather than on a public forum. |
| Colin Casey | Mar 15 2024, 9:52am | As an unwaged person, I feel compelled to give my perspective after reading this thread. Firstly I'm disappointed and offended by some of the comments. These are not inline with what I've come to experience with IMRA. Like all sports, there are a number of barriers to entry, whether waged or not. In my experience the entry fee for an IMRA race is no way near the top of these. By way of example my local AC are holding a 10k this weekend which I will not part-take (due to the price) however I will (subject to child minding) definitely be at the IMRA race in May when it comes to North County Dublin. From a financial perspective, it's the cost of the equipment that tops the list e.g. reasonably good runners, mandatory jacket, etc. SOLUTION: as far as I'm aware there's nothing stopping us, the running community (with no input required from the voluntary committee), to post on the forum any excess, no longer needed, equipment which other individuals might be interested in taking off you. In my opinion, this would be a far better initiative that looking to change what is already a heavy discounted, low race entry fee. Finally regarding the overall finances of IMRA, I have no issue with this as It is due to this strong financial position that IMRA continues to be able to offer €7 race entry. If they were not in this position, the natural reaction is to increase race fees which could result in some people no longer be able/willing to pay the higher fee. Finally, on the spirit of inclusion - I'd be grateful if you could send some of the Dublin mountains over to the North side (unfortunately I don't have a suggested solution for this one)!! Have a great long St. Patricks weekend |
| Richard Fox | Mar 15 2024, 11:19am | Thanks very much Colin for adding balance and perspective to this topic. Also for prospective solutions that might help an unwaged individual. Very kind of you to share and give the waged community an idea of what is involved. Thank you. Best wishes foxy |
| Robbie Williams | Mar 15 2024, 12:00pm | Colin that’s a very good idea. It’s the gear that’s the expense. And easily sorted, plenty of us have good equip , maybe too big too small etc hanging around unused |
| raymond smith | Mar 15 2024, 10:02pm | I do believe that 7 euro for a race and 10 euro for yearly membership is in the current economic climate still insanely good value. That's the cost of 1/2 a packet of the cheapest cigarettes or maybe 2 cups of coffee but I know plenty of unwaged people who would find the money for both. I have been penniless in the past but always looked for ways to earn what I needed through barter or good will. I certainly never expected special treatment because of my circumstances. To that end my wife suggested, why not offer a free race in exchange for a volunteer credit. Those of us who can afford 7 euro will happily decline the free place but it might make a difference to someone |
