Car Rally Query
| Author | Date | Message |
|---|---|---|
| Deirdre Galvin | Oct 2 2023, 7:13pm | I thought the topic title might grab some attention! We live on the side of Brandon Hill in Kilkenny. This coming Sunday, 8th October sees a car rally pass along the hillside. The fire roads in question form part of the South Leinster Way. There are signs posted up on the various trail heads, basically inferring closure of the trails for the day. I cannot see how a National Waymarked Route would afford access to a car rally, given how huge a breach of public safety this is, coupled with how out of sync with national sustainability objectives it is. I have emailed various entities, looking for some insight / assistance. But, given the purpose of these fire roads; i.e. part of the Leinster Way; I find it hard to believe that a green light would have been given. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. |
| Rory Leadbetter | Oct 2 2023, 8:25pm | Ya! I saw that sign up there yesterday! Thought it might be a joke, I can’t see how you’d even get a car up some of the proposed route. I’ve seen the farmers who share commonage up there with Quads but never a car. That can’t be right. |
| Mícheál O'Mullain | Oct 2 2023, 8:57pm | Motorsport in Ireland is highly regulated. One can’t simply rock up and hold an event without the appropriate permits and safety measures in place. I don’t rally myself but can appreciate the sport for what it is. Watching the skill required to pilot a car through a forestry stage corner is one of the great sporting experiences. There were people rallying cars in Ireland long before people were running mountains for leisure purposes. I say each to their own and there is room for all…it’s not as if it is there 365 days a year…..or that you wouldn’t hear them coming soon enough to get out of the way! |
| Jeff Swords | Oct 2 2023, 9:20pm | I'm sure there were people running around mountains for fun before cars were even a common sight. |
| Kevin O'Riordan | Oct 2 2023, 9:56pm | No Jeff, cars came first, then humans learned how to run :) |
| Kevin O'Riordan | Oct 2 2023, 9:59pm | I've heard it said that people were happy to walk everywhere in the olden times but then cars were invented and people saw how fast the cars could go and thought "I want to be just like the cars" so then they took up running. |
| Kevin O'Riordan | Oct 2 2023, 10:13pm | Anyway I googled it and it does seem to be an official Motor sport Ireland sanctioned thing so I'm sure they have all the required permits and the course will be fully closed off from walkers/runners so seems to be all fine tbh. |
| Mícheál O'Mullain | Oct 2 2023, 10:22pm | Car rallying in Ireland traces its origins back to the 1903 Gordon Bennett race with the Circuit of Ireland rally of 1931 starting what is recognised as one of the oldest continuous motor sport events in the world. Running as a leisure activity in any meaningful sense did not feature globally until after the Second World War and only really took off in the 1960s and likely much later in Ireland based on the low numbers one would see on the hills in the 1980s. As I say…room for all. |
| Eoin Mac Mahon | Oct 2 2023, 10:36pm | Cars are bad for the environment |
| Jeff Swords | Oct 2 2023, 11:44pm | Mystified as to how our ancient ancestors went hunting or escaped a maulin (sic) without their cars all the same. What a bizarre debate though, basically an argument that cars were here first. |
| Denis Mc glynn | Oct 3 2023, 6:57am | No doubt the majority of people arrive at imra events in there cars |
| Peter O'Farrell | Oct 3 2023, 8:24am | My google fu skills have deserted me. I will be back though. I just need to find it.... I'm reasonably sure there's a forum where there's a message which mentions - race notification signage at the trailheads, National Parks, national sustainability objectives, damage to trails, interference with the normal running of the amenity, and the overall ridiculousness of...........hill running! Doug Corrie used to take part in and help organise car orienteering (I think), that sounded a bit mad too. |
| Niall Corrigan | Oct 3 2023, 8:50am | Several years ago myself and two buddies were on the Wicklow Way, south of Ironbridge heading for Tinahealy when we encountered tape across the track and signs that the forest was closed for a rally. Being a belligerent individual with absolutely no love of motorsport of any kind we proceeded on our way. They had to pause the rally till we had passed. |
| Phil behan | Oct 3 2023, 9:16am | Nothing surprises me when dealing with county Councils. They frequently talk out of both sides of their mouths. Only last year a council, which shall remain unnamed, approved a race that told participants to drop their water bottles on a stretch of beach (deemed a national biosphere) and the organisers would collect the litter after the race. Most blew into the sea! A year later and a local volunteer group needed to step in to make sure the race changed route and avoided polluting the area with plastic. Only under pressure did the council act and finally enforce its grand leave no trace policy that it itself had adopted and promoted. I feel that once an event is properly regulated and there are strict rules for leave no trace, littering etc, then c'est la vie, we can all enjoy the hills / fire roads in that case. I must step in on the mountain runner vs car debate. I found this '' The first written account of a mountain race took place in 1068 when a Scottish King needed to select the most able messenger so the test was to see who could run up and down the mountain nearby in the fastest time. Fast forward to 1895 and the oldest mountain fell race that continues today took place in United Kingdom. Interesting! |
| Brendan Lawlor | Oct 3 2023, 9:47am | Phil, was there an early start in that race in 1068?…asking for a friend |
| Phil behan | Oct 3 2023, 9:53am | Brendan, can you email your query to results@imra.ie |
| Mícheál O'Mullain | Oct 3 2023, 10:13am | All missing the point of course which is about regulated sport as a leisure activity in Ireland. The historical facts are that the RIAC (which licences its authority to Motorsport Ireland) was founded in 1901. IMRA was founded in 1980. The impression one might get from the very first post here was that rallying on forestry roads was somewhat of a new phenomenon. As mountain runners whilst we should always promote our own sport we need to be mindful that the hills and mountains are not the exclusive preserve of any one group. |
| Jeff Swords | Oct 3 2023, 10:19am | I don't think the first post was related to mountain running or IMRA though. |
| Brendan Lawlor | Oct 3 2023, 11:09am | https://youtu.be/Nn0rg-fAREY?si=rHgJxqn4Oa9cAbCb |
| Stuart Scott | Oct 3 2023, 12:33pm | Brendan, are you advocating a Naked Warrior Dance between the runners and rallyers?! |
| Kevin O'Riordan | Oct 3 2023, 12:38pm | Brendan's song sounds like it could be a perfect addition to Alan Ayling's Connaucht Champs playlist. |
| Dara O'Brien | Oct 3 2023, 8:45pm | To be honest, I’d be more concerned with the farmers burning the place every year. It’s only once a year and the fire roads are man made and constantly torn up by the logging trucks. It would be different if it was on the open bog. I’ve no affiliation or affection for rallying and I run Brandon regularly (when I’m not being lazy!) |
| Warren Swords | Oct 4 2023, 10:08am | I think IMRA should remove fireroads from all our races just to be on the safe side. I'm sure Mikey "I hate Fireroads" Fry would be in full agreement. Brian Kitson would also be in favour. He'd get another few years on his Inov8s that he's been running in since that 1903 Gordon Bennett race. |
| David Power | Oct 4 2023, 11:56am | #carrallygate Must add that to the list of topical discussions on here. Might even write a poem, or a Limerick, as we can all learn so much from the musings on here. |
| Deirdre Galvin | Oct 4 2023, 12:50pm | Thank you for all the contributions, musings and banter. To put some parameters on it; be it of use for someone else in the future. This is what I understand from my correspondence with various outdoor stakeholders: - The network of 'Ways' in Ireland operate on a purely permissive basis, with no legislation in place. To this effect, the landowner can at any point withdraw permission for access. - The fact that this rally traverses Coillte roads; a significant part of which comprise the South Leinster Way; and Coillte have given the go-ahead, there are no grounds on which to counter this, given the absence of legislation. The above two points are facts; garnered from exchanges with individuals far more knowledgeable than I am on this. However, below is my opinion, and, no thank you, I don't require anyone to weigh in behind or against it. As users of the Great Outdoors, we should perceive ourselves as custodians of the land on which we run or hike. More often than not, this is as simple as ensuring gates are closed behind us, and adhering to the 'leave no trace' policy. Indeed, page 1 of Coillte's own General Recreation Policy states that they "seek to provide low-impact, non-motorised recreation to the general public." How a car rally careering along a trail network fits into this still belies me. But, there you have it. QED |
| Mícheál O'Mullain | Oct 4 2023, 2:33pm | Just so there is no misunderstanding the page one from which you quoted also specifically mentions “other specialist activities under special permit” and Heading 15 on page 15 specifically deals with the policy on motor sports events. I also suspect the organisers of such events would object to the use of the word “careering” as it implies that they are out of control when in fact the opposite is the case! |
| Brian Kitson | Oct 5 2023, 3:06pm | Two quotes: “If everything seems under control, you’re just not going fast enough”-Mario Andretti “Go hard or go home” -WB Yeats |
| Mícheál O'Mullain | Oct 5 2023, 11:28pm | Andretti was right Brian. But the link between mountains and motorsport in literature goes back further. Hemingway might have had a point when he said: “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games” Maybe mountain running and car rallying have more in common than we’d care to admit! |
